Interview with Hailu Shawul, Chairman of the Coalition for Unity and Democracy
(CUD) -
K I N I J IT
« Immediately they should get rid of these useless
factories which they cannot manage, useless transport systems, so many things
which are loosing money. »
interview by Robert Wiren Les nouvelles d'Addis
Addis-Abeba,
Mr
Hailu Shawil was born in
1936. He graduated in Civil Engineering and post-graduated in Financial
Management and in National Development Planning. He gained professional experience
in various positions in both public and private sector, especially in the
fields of hydrology and road infrastructures. He has been a Minister of State
Farms and became later a consultant to the European Commission in
agro-industrial projects for ACP countries (
Mr
Hailu chairs a coalition of 4 parties, the Coalition
for Unity and Democracy (CUD), launched in 2003. The member are
: All Ethiopia Unity Party (AEUP), Ethiopian Democratic Union Party – Medhin (EDUP – Medhin), Rainbow
Party and Ethiopian Democratic League (EDL). Mr Hailu Shawils’s former party was
the AAPO, an Amhara party chaired by late Professor Asrat Woldeyes who was opposed to
the federal solution and was jailed for about 5 years.
But later a number of AAPO members decided to accept
federalism and launched the AEUP, a multiethnic party with strong support in
the Amhara region, in the Southern People’s region
and in
LNA. This coalition has four parties as members. How could they unite ?
Hailu Shawil. These four parties have come
together on the base of multiethnic thinking. Each of the parties must accept
any Ethiopian from ever origin. Secondly, we believe in privatization of land.
Number three, we believe in the unity of
LNA. These points are principles, they do
not represent a political program. If you win what would be the main decisions
to be taken within a short period ?
HS.
Land is a very essential component of economic development. What we are saying
is not about buying and selling land. We say that the government should not be
owner of land. In
LNA. In the northern part of the country, there has always been a
collective system for the land. Is that contradictory with privatization
?
HS.
It is not contradictory. What we say is this :
previously the people themselves used to decide how to use the land. We say the
same thing. People should decide. The government should not interfere in
allocation of land or in demarcation of any boundaries.
LNA. But for urban land, privatization could provoke speculation
and the cost of land would increase.
HS.
But actually the government is selling land today.
LNA. Leasing ?
HS.
Yes, leasing, but a 50 year’s lease is like selling. Buying at least allows you
to pass it to your grandchildren. Now you can pass it for 50 years and the
government takes it. Regarding urban land, anything is based on supply and
demand. If there is only one seller, a monopolistic seller, he can decide how
much to charge for each plot of land. The reality is how much the government is
asking for each square meter of urban land. It is astronomic. It is more
expensive than in some bigger cities in the world.
LNA. You are talking about private persons who want a plot of land
to build a house ? What would be the price ?
HS.
In
LNA. This is the price for a lease ?
HS.
Yes, it is leasing. But if there were several owners, they would compete for
the price and the price comes down. When I built my house, I bought the land
for 5 birr during the last days of Hayle Sellassie. 5 birr per square meter. That same land costs
now 3000 birr per square meter. It is not an inflation issue. It is a
supply-demand issue where the supplyer jigs up the
prices.
LNA. What other important decisions would you suggest for a new governement ?
HS.
The new government should sell land at very low prices, reserving some
development land for the poor and selling the rest for a reasonable price. If
there are some industries you want, for them you give the land at give away
prices, for almost nothing because you want job creations. You do this in
accordance to the benefit of the society, not in accordance to some bureaucrate sitting in his office.
LNA. Beside the land problem, are there other economic aspects of
your program ?
HS.
Yes. In our case the economy is almost dead. This economy can be resurrected
only by changing the banking and finance system. At the moment banks are very
strict. They want collaterals, that is to give a
property to the bank in order to borrow cash. In a country where all property
has been nationalized, where do you get collaterals ?
The banks want a property as guarantee. Even if you have the best project which
creates a lot of jobs and is highly profitable, they say where is your guarantee ? And if you do not have property, you do not
borrow. Few people can borrow. All properties, factories, houses, have been
nationalized by the Derg and this governement
kept all of them. No compensation was given. So you cannot lift an economy just
like that.
LNA. Nothing was privatized since ten years ?
HS.
No privatization. The whole society is empoverished
rather. Nothing has been privatized. I mean giving back properties to their
owners.
LNA. What about national companies like Ethiopian Airlines,
Electricity, Telecommunication ? Should they be private ?
HS.
That is a long term issue. Immediately they should get rid of these useless
factories which they cannot manage, useless transport systems, so many things which are loosing money. And the governement is keeping them. The governement
should not pay money to run a soap factory, to run a transportation company.
LNA. The Privatization Agency did not succeed in selling factories
or societies ?
HS.
They did not succeed because they were asking too much. They do’nt know that an old factory is an old factory. So I
prefer to have a new one instead of an inefficient factory. I would not buy it.
LNA. Now about the political future. How
should the country be organized ? What is your main
difference with EPRDF ?
HS.
We believe in the federal system, but not ethnically.
LNA. You would prefer multiethnic regions ?
HS.
There are regions which could have purely one ethnic group. For example in the
East you could have a state fully Oromo and more West an
other mixed state, Oromo and Gurage.
LNA. But now, if there is a minority in one state, what happens ?
HS.
There are special woredas for minorities.
LNA. This seem to complicate the whole
system.
HS.
Yes. If you look at the south, in Woleyta for
instance, there are special zones which do not make sense because they do’nt use their own language. Every body is using Amharic
as a primary language. Except keeping their culture, having their own societies
to keep their language going, I do’nt see the point
of this organization, to say : you speak this
language, you work here, you speak that language, you work there. That means
that a brilliant man from such an ethnic group can never go up to the
government. And if you go to another area, people say :
he is this, he is that.
LNA. It seems that there is an evolution in your party, the former
AAPO, which was in favour of centralism and not
federalism.
HS.
When we became AEUP, we decided a complete new policy. The hardliners left and
created another AAPO.
LNA. So now there are few people who still believe in the
centralized system which failed in
HS.
Nobody cares for that anymore. Everybody agrees on federalism. But federalism
is always dependent on people’s will. A lot of referendums will be needed to
solidify such a federation.
LNA. Do you think that the idea of federation is good but that its
implementation by EPRDF is not satisfactory ?
HS.
We want to change the system because the basic federal idea of EPRDF is ethnic
difference. That is not our basic premise. We have to redo the whole thing,
bring it to the people for a referendum and have once for all a decision.
Administratively a system has to be efficient. At the moment it is not.
LNA. How do you feel about this pre-election period with a lot of
complains from the opposition and what are your expectations for the coming vote ?
HS.
We knew that we would have a lot of problems. Dictatorships do’nt leave just like that.
You have to fight. You have to stand up. We believe that ever devious methods
they have, we always have a deterrent against most of them. The people are with
us at the moment. They understand what the problems are. So with observers here
and with our strong people in each polling station to control the counting, we
believe we will have our share. We believe, I tell you, in the federal
parliament we will get more than 52% of the seats.
LNA. Do you have enough people to be present in the polling stations ?
HS.
Yes. More than enough. We have our members everywhere
in Ethiopia. Very strong ones who have sacrificed for the last two years, going
to jail, coming out, working hard. And we believe we can win the state election
of the Amhara region, of the Afar region, of the
Southern region. In Oromiya I think we are the second
after the EPRDF’s OPDO. We will have about 25% of the
seats in Oromiya. Addis Ababa of course, is
automatically ours. So with four regions and the federal government, if they do’nt run away, we will win.